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Various stuff LF fix
#21
(12-21-2016, 08:28 AM)imbierinis Wrote:
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So SR range with rapid fire becomes lower and he needs to reach range lower than 900. HE range stays at 900 and it starts to cast skill first. Your testing method is incorect.

Okay, just stop already. You have no idea what you are talking about. Range for skills NEVER change, that works for both ways, reducing the range with Rapid Fire or increasing it with Snipe.

(12-21-2016, 10:09 AM)Serotonin Wrote:
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Remember, both classes have almost identical attack speed (actually he might have a tiny 1-2 more because of the boost atk speed passive) without rapid fire.

You are wrong. Silver Ranger has more Atk. Speed than HE cause of higher DEX. But let's even forget about this. Rapid Fire does not make SR cast skills faster than HE, difference here should be significant, but instead, there is none at all. In fact, SR should cast skills faster than HE even without Rapid Fire on.

(12-21-2016, 10:09 AM)Serotonin Wrote:
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The timing problem remains...How did both chars get within 900 range at the very same moment (that means milliseconds).

It's very easy, run the at each other from longer distance and just hold skill button and left Ctrl together.

(12-21-2016, 10:09 AM)Serotonin Wrote:
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Btw you tested it on self buffs, right?

It was tested on Haste 1 potion and self buffs(like on oly), with Haste 2 + self buffs and on PP buff with PoF + Berserker. In all three conditions HE was faster in most occasions, even with Rapid Fire used on SR. That should have never happened in those conditions.

That is a huge nerf for SR as Atk. Speed(skill casting and skill reuse) was a compensation for lower CON, STR and lack of passive Critical Damage.
Kieyra Bowborn of the House Proland, First of Her Name, the Uncaught, Queen of the Moonlight Sentinels and the First Archers, Empress of the Disciples, Breaker of Winds, and Mother of Outlaws.
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#22
Quote:You are wrong. Silver Ranger has more Atk. Speed than HE cause of higher DEX.
That's a popular misconception. Just because elves have higher dex doesn't mean they have the highest atk speed (same thing with dagger class) You can compare both classes and see for yourself. It's rapid fire that makes the difference..
Quote: In fact, SR should cast skills faster than HE even without Rapid Fire on.
No he shouldn't. The have identical attack speed so cast time should be the same..
Quote:It's very easy, run the at each other from longer distance and just hold skill button and left Ctrl together.
Like I said, their atk speed difference is almost zero which makes it almost impossible to test it by hand.

The reason why I ask if you tested with self or no buffs is because skills like stunning shot have a short cooldown anyway so it's difficult to get accurate results with pof and zerk. Anyway, if he casts faster when you have rapid then it's worth investigating..
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#23
(12-21-2016, 02:00 PM)Serotonin Wrote:
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Quote:You are wrong. Silver Ranger has more Atk. Speed than HE cause of higher DEX.
That's a popular misconception. Just because elves have higher dex doesn't mean they have the highest atk speed (same thing with dagger class) You can compare both classes and see for yourself. It's rapid fire that makes the difference..
Quote: In fact, SR should cast skills faster than HE even without Rapid Fire on.

Yes, I know that DEX is not the only factor affecting Atk. Speed, but class and race too. I did not want to get into details here cause this is a wrong thread to do that. The raw difference should be ~34 Atk. Speed in favour for SR. In that case, SR should have casted Skill ~34 ms faster, instead HE lands their skills first. And like I already mentioned, that also supposed to affect Skill re-use but it does not, even with Rapid Fire.

Also, let's not forget about Stun Resistance I've mentioned before:
(12-20-2016, 02:54 PM)Kieyra Wrote:
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While using Stun Skills, damage from them is reduced by Stun resistance applied from items or buffs. Stun resistance should only affect the chance of being stunned or having target cancelled, not the damage.

In some cases Stun Shot is like 6 times weaker with Shots than regular hit without Shots, if someone has in total 180% Stun Resistance. This goes opposite to it’s description as well cause it’s decreasing damage instead of increasing it. Basically, it’s treated like a magic spell of which damage depends on for example, resist buffs.

And also, very important:
(12-20-2016, 02:54 PM)Kieyra Wrote:
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It is still possible to buff/heal corpse(...).

Some other issues that do not work as per retail Interlude:
- heal amount which is increased by your M. Atk, it actually works that way, needs fixing
- M. Atk affecting land rate of skills(I was told it works here that way, never tested it, but if so, it's incorrect - only INT, lvl of character, lvl of skill and it’s lvl of Chance enchant should play role in land rate for all curses, thus go against character’s WIT/MEN, not M. Def)
- I did not see any difference in power of Resurrection after maximizing WIT on Cardinal, might be worth investigating
Kieyra Bowborn of the House Proland, First of Her Name, the Uncaught, Queen of the Moonlight Sentinels and the First Archers, Empress of the Disciples, Breaker of Winds, and Mother of Outlaws.
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#24
(12-21-2016, 01:21 PM)Kieyra Wrote:
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(12-21-2016, 08:28 AM)imbierinis Wrote:
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So SR range with rapid fire becomes lower and he needs to reach range lower than 900.  HE range stays at 900 and it starts to cast skill first. Your testing method is incorect.

Okay, just stop already. You have no idea what you are talking about. Range for skills NEVER change, that works for both ways, reducing the range with Rapid Fire or increasing it with Snipe. 
Sorry for being unprofessional :))
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#25
Apology accepted Big Grin
Kieyra Bowborn of the House Proland, First of Her Name, the Uncaught, Queen of the Moonlight Sentinels and the First Archers, Empress of the Disciples, Breaker of Winds, and Mother of Outlaws.
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#26
You threw a lot of issues there...
Not sure if stun resistance affects your (archer's) damage but it isn't something I've noticed with melee stuns. I'll let you know if I see a difference when I'm on my HE sub
Quote:Some other issues that do not work as per retail Interlude:
- heal amount which is increased by your M. Atk, it actually works that way, needs fixing
- M. Atk affecting land rate of skills(I was told it works here that way, never tested it, but if so, it's incorrect - only INT, lvl of character, lvl of skill and it’s lvl of Chance enchant should play role in land rate for all curses, thus go against character’s WIT/MEN, not M. Def)
- I did not see any difference in power of Resurrection after maximizing WIT on Cardinal, might be worth investigating
-M atk does increase your heal amount but not by alot. It's more obvious when you equip a higher grade weapon. No bug here
-INT affects debuff land rate through m attack. That's also normal
-That's indeed a bug if you are correct.




Fyi, naked HE with DB on and no dex dyes or self buffs : Attack Speed 338 (what's yours?)
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#27
I know I am pointing out a lot various stuff, and there is more stuff I haven't listed yet. Honestly, I'm hoping China is taking notes of all these. I'm kinda surprised that after 18 months since L2 Dawn launched, nobody have spotted those issues. Am I the only nerd here? Big Grin Anyway;

(12-21-2016, 05:29 PM)Serotonin Wrote:
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Not sure if stun resistance affects your (archer's) damage but it isn't something I've noticed with melee stuns. I'll let you know if I see a difference when I'm on my HE sub

I have tested it. I am not just stating here blank statements. You don't have to test it.

(12-21-2016, 05:29 PM)Serotonin Wrote:
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M atk does increase your heal amount but not by alot. It's more obvious when you equip a higher grade weapon. No bug here

Wrong. M. Atk does not increase your heal. On retail Interlude, difference between Homunkulus and SoM was equal to 4, and between SoM and AM was equal to 3, not over 100(enchants did not change anything when it comes to Heal power whatsoever). I am aware that many people will probably disagree with that, but that is how it should be on Interlude. There are only few exceptions that increase Heal amount, and those are items, certain buffs and Spiritshots(those are also bugged - let's talk about them later).

(12-21-2016, 05:29 PM)Serotonin Wrote:
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INT affects debuff land rate through m attack. That's also normal

Indeed, this is what I stated. I was told that M. Atk itself increases a chance of landing curses. By M. Atk, I mean buff like Empower for example, not M. Atk inherited from INT. If for example Empower or higher enchant on the weapon affects land rate of curses, this is incorrect.

(12-21-2016, 05:29 PM)Serotonin Wrote:
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Fyi, naked HE with DB on and no dex dyes or self buffs : Attack Speed 338 (what's yours?)

I can't answer that question cause I am at work. However, by using same Atk. Speed buffs, SR will have better bonuses since has higher DEX(which is a multiplier). Atk Speed Boost passive is not. This is only reason you have similar raw/unbuffed Atk. Speed like SR.

Let's not debate about BASE stats, cause this is not the case. When tested with PoF + Berserker where SR(with Rapid Fire) had over 100 Atk Speed more, HE was still faster and both archers had the same skill re-use.
Kieyra Bowborn of the House Proland, First of Her Name, the Uncaught, Queen of the Moonlight Sentinels and the First Archers, Empress of the Disciples, Breaker of Winds, and Mother of Outlaws.
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#28
M attack makes a tiny tiny difference if you use blessed shots but but it's more noticeable without them. Let's do some digging. Here are some tests done by players on offi (date 2007)...
Quote:EE - Greater Heal level 21, Major Heal level 6, Vitalize level 17 Armor is Tallum Leather. Wit +4/ Men-4 dye. GH does not include the HoT effect.

Cygnus fishing pole (matk 80)
GH 403
MH 848 w/ emp3 (matk 83) 849
Vit 685

(Number after / is with BSps)

Voodoo Doll (NG) (matk 176)
GH 408/454 [1.113]
MH 853/875 [1.025]
Vit 690/724 [1.049]

Voodoo Doll (NG) (matk 167) tried Blue Wolf Robes for this test only, -2 Int is responsible for the lower heals.
GH 407/449 [1.103]
MH 852/870 [1.021]
Vit 689/719 [1.044]

Sword of Valhalla (B grade) +4 w/ acumen (matk 560)
GH 418/659 [1.577]
MH 863/1080 [1.251]
Vit 700/929 [1.327]

Soul Seperator (A grade) +7 no SA (matk 595)
GH 419/661 [1.578]
MH 864/1099 [1.272]
Vit 701/948 [1.352]
w/ Empower 3 (matk 984)
GH 426/675 [1.585]
MH 871/1140 [1.309]
Vit 708/967 [1.366]
w/ Demon set no empower (matk 682)
GH 421/664 [1.577]
MH 866/1129 [1.304]
Vit 703/956 [1.360]

Sword of Whispering Death (C grade) +10 SA: Magic Power (matk 712)
GH 421/665 [1.576]
MH 866/1131 [1.306]
Vit 703/957 [1.361]
w/ Demon set (matk 802)
GH 423/668 [1.579]
MH 868/1134 [1.306]
Vit 705/961 [1.363]

Edit to add % change with BSps. I also check to make sure that I did use NG Bsps, and I did. Still have some in inventory. Odd that the percent increase is so small with the NG Bsps
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Old 02-06-2007, 04:35 PM  #14
Arigato
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Default Re: MAtk and shot boost to heal
[ QUOTE ]

Soul Seperator (A grade) +7 no SA (matk 595)
GH 419/661
MH 864/1099
Vit 701/948
w/ Empower 3 (matk 984)
GH 426/675
MH 871/1140
Vit 908/967


[/ QUOTE ]

That is... odd. Here's what Empower3 is doing added to each heal (without/with bsps):

+7 HP / +14 HP on Greater Heal
+7 HP / +41 HP on Major Heal
+207 HP / +19 HP on Vitalize

Quote:If for example Empower or higher enchant on the weapon affects land rate of curses, this is incorrect.
You're kidding right?. Every single mage will tell you that debuffs land more often when you have empower on. It's been like this since forever
Quote:I can't answer that question cause I am at work. However, by using same Atk. Speed buffs, SR will have better bonuses since has higher DEX(which is a multiplier). Atk Speed Boost passive is not. This is only reason you have similar raw/unbuffed Atk. Speed like SR.

Let's not debate about BASE stats, cause this is not the case. When tested with PoF + Berserker where SR(with Rapid Fire) had over 100 Atk Speed more, HE was still faster and both archers had the same skill re-use.
Sure, test it and get back to me. I'm not debating base stats at all. I'm just saying that it will be same difference with or without buffs. The bonus from having a high ability score matters when you add dyes, not when you buff up.
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#29
(12-21-2016, 08:13 PM)Serotonin Wrote:
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Quote:If for example Empower or higher enchant on the weapon affects land rate of curses, this is incorrect.
You're kidding right?. Every single mage will tell you that debuffs land more often when you have empower on. It's been like this since forever

I'm not kidding. Interlude works that way, whether you think I'm a comedian or not.

(12-21-2016, 08:13 PM)Serotonin Wrote:
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Sure, test it and get back to me. I'm not debating base stats at all. I'm just saying that it will be same difference with or without buffs. The bonus from having a high ability score matters when you add dyes, not when you buff up.

I'm not testing Atk. Speed cause this is not my issue. It's all about speed of casting Skills based on current Atk. Speed and their re-use which does not work how it supposed to on Interludet.
Kieyra Bowborn of the House Proland, First of Her Name, the Uncaught, Queen of the Moonlight Sentinels and the First Archers, Empress of the Disciples, Breaker of Winds, and Mother of Outlaws.
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#30
(12-22-2016, 04:53 AM)Kieyra Wrote:
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I'm not kidding. Interlude works that way, whether you think I'm a comedian or not.

Sorry mate, I'm not trying to disrespect you but you have to provide some kind of evidence to back up your claim.
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